gtk applications on windows look so fucking wrong

why is adwaita here what the fuck

gtk and qt both look weird on macos too

@riku qt tries but i think it's somewhat outdated, i think qt5 looks ok while qt4 tries to emulate older "aqua" style. GTK just looks like shit everywhere except gnome, it's by design.

@hj honestly i think qt looks bad everywhere, no matter how much you theme it. gtk with a good theme can look good on almost any linux desktop, but it looks weird on window managers

@riku qt at least tries to look native on mac, windows and gtk-based linux desktops. QT is also very themeable as well to the point you wouldn't know app uses it, while GTK devs actively hate themes and their users.

I'm guessing if you're used to GNOME everything not GTK looks bad and vice-versa.

@hj even on qt native desktops like kde, i still think qt just looks bad. the way things are usually layed out just looks very convoluted and "old fashioned" to me. at least it has the advantage of looking somewhat at home on windows and macos, i suppose, but it's still obviously qt

@riku some people, including me, prefer it that way, although KDE is also moving forward and experimenting with better layouts, like being able to have macos-like global menu, using hamburger menu instead of menubar. GNOME's way also has quite a lot of issues, both technical and functional.

>global menu bar
this is LITERALLY the best feature of macos and i still miss it from unity

@riku yeah you can get that on KDE, although it doesn't have search (yet?) and sometimes buggy. GTK just doesn't... want to have that. Everyone and everything must use unsearchable hamburger menu.

@hj i've looked so hard for an equivalent for something like gnome but nothing like that exists anymore and its such a pain, im happy kde are doing that

@riku main thing is - KDE's ideaology seems to be to allow users to customize stuff and allow different use cases, as long as it has feature for it.

GNOME's more like Apple - they have "one true usecase" and everyone who doesn't like it is WRONG. They don't care two shits about people who like aesthetics, they don't care about more complicated apps like IDEs (or even GIMP for that matter that STILL uses GTK2, not 3!!), they removed desktop icons because who needs that etc.

I don't use GNOME myself but GTK looks and feels clunky and obnoxious, while using gnome seems like an uphill battle against developers, at least from outsider perspective.

@hj there are a lot of things i disagree with gnome with, but i still use gnome because pretty much every linux desktop environment sucks and i'm really just picking poison. gnome just has a few extra things that i appreciate and take advantage of even if it has a bunch of shortcomings

@riku yeah. Use whatever suits you. KDE's been great for me in last 7 years or so. Barely had any reason to be upset with it (except KDE-PIM which is mostly trash fire).

@hj my problem with kde is just how inconsistent the experience is and how many menus seem to be in all of kde's own applications, everything feels really bloated. dolphin especially. i wonder if that's changed though

@riku idk, there's a bit of inconsistency, esp when it comes to gtk apps obviously. As for menus, idk. There isn't much actual bloat tho, you don't even have to use most of kde's app, you can have a lightweight setup if you want.
@hj @riku Kontact really needs some bugfixing love. It's a fucking mess.

Personally I'm wondering if I shouldn't switch to something else. KDE has mostly worked for me in the past, but it still has graphical issues at random times and don't get me started on how bad multi-monitor stuff works on it.
@fristi @riku multi-monitor works well for fixed configuration, and I think nowadays hotplug works okayish but YMMV, from what developer say - there are too many cases and hardware issues so it might not work on some particular setup.

Kontact aka KDE-PIM aka Akonadi is an unstable trashfire, at least KMail and mail overall works, calendar is too unstable and unusable still, and when it breaks it really fucking breaks and much pain in the ass to fix. I think it got a lot of bugfixes recently tho, but i still think it's a bit overengineered.

@meeper @hj oh really? i didn't notice anything changed

@riku @hj I suppose it's in a later or possibly nightly or testing version, but I was told that when I was last ranting about gtk :p

@hj @riku
Qt doesnt try to look native on Linux. They have removed the GTK2 theme support completely and never cared enough for a GTK3 (or 4 by now) replacement. The #fedora community managed to create an adwaita-qt style that works pretty well, but Qt itself doesn't care about the Linux desktop anymore.

On macOS Big Sur Qt looks really bad, on Windows 10, by now Qt also looks dated, except you do something like Telegram, where you ship your own design.

@fabiscafe telegram looks great on all platforms. same with monero-gui

@riku Thats true. Yet still I have to complain because it's in bad shape on wayland, because of Qt.

@fabiscafe really? i haven't noticed any problems with telegram on wayland

@riku Run it natively on wayland and try a touchpad to scroll. At some point Xinput2 seems to be broken or something like this. It's sometimes that bad that I cant scroll at all. Also it still doesnt draw a shadow or just the fact that it still starts in xwayland mode even if the desktop runs natively wayland. :(

@fabiscafe i use libinput with wayland and scrolling is perfectly fine on telegram. it's fine on chrome too, which is also xwayland

@riku yeah, don't run it on xwayland mode, but native.
QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland telegram-desktop

There are times when it's fine and other times where you barely can scroll or where it shoots you from one end to the other.

@fabiscafe @riku i guess times have changed. Back in the day qt worked decently with gtk2 and vice-versa. I guess we can blame gtk for not caring about being compatible with others.

Oh well, at least it IS native in KDE, and KDE guys did a great job implementing breeze theme for GTK2 and 3.

@hj @fabiscafe yeah, theming gtk is super easy on kde but theming qt on gnome is a pain in the dick and i've always hated that

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