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⚠️ PSA to all Germans ⚠️

Starting tomorrow, Telekom and Telefonica will hand over your phone's movement data to the government and other authorities.

It is opt-out, not opt-in!

Deactivate ASAP.

Telekom: optout-service.telekom-dienste

O2: telefonica.de/dap/selbst-entsc

@koyu PSA to germans in english? ok 🤷‍♂️

@Myrrdin just so it gets boosted more frequently...it's a serious issue

@Myrrdin @koyu half the people i know here are in germany. i don’t know german, and a couple of them don’t either.

@LunaDragofelis telefonica and therefore o2, they're both in the same network afaik

German cellular network ownership intricacies 

@koyu You might be thinking of e-plus, who merged with Telefonica/O2 a few years ago, or Drillisch, who shares e-plus's network (and therefore now Telefonica). Vodafone is one of the three operators with their own network, the others being Tekekom and Telefonica (and formerly also e-plus).

German cellular network ownership intricacies 

@LunaDragofelis @koyu To make matters more fun Drillisch operates a bunch of weirdly specialized and scammy looking sub-brands, one of which I'm on :blobcat:

German cellular network ownership intricacies 

@LunaDragofelis @koyu ... They've won some 5G bands however, so they'll probably start operating on their own network in some areas in a while.
Bonus: They're a part of United Internet, which started out as 1&1 (and still operates that brand).

@koyu ist das nur bei Telekom und Telefonica? Oder macht das Vodafone auch irgendwann?

@Lazol bin mir nicht 100%ig sicher. Das müsste man nochmal nachschauen.

@koyu phew

good thing i'm using Vodafone, right? right??

@koyu @hirojin In the Vodafone app there are many opt-ins or opt-outs. I don't know if any of them is for location stuff, but they've all been on "off" for me.

@koyu BTW at least in the Telefonica case this is nothing new, I actually disabled it before. (you see your status when you enter your number there)

@koyu die Telefonica Seite scheint auch für Blau zu funktionieren...

@hermlon @koyu
Diese Anbieter sollte die Abmeldung über den Telefonicalink funktionieren... für den fall das nicht bitte Rückmeldung...
O2
Blau.de
Fonic
Tchibo mobil
Ortel Mobile
Netzclub
TürkeiSIM
K-Classic Mobil (Kaufland)

@koyu I've read through the Telefonica information and I'm concerned in its current state. The data is quite anonymized e.g. it is atomar so that you know how many women have been in the area and how many people of an age but you can't say how many women of that age were there. The data is also slightly changed randomly so you don't know exact times ages etc. BUT they want t o use it not just for group analysis but also for personalized marketing

@koyu It might be worth mentioning that the data is at least anonymized and they put quite some thought to how to do that effectively. Nevertheless, the collection of movement profiles really should be opt-in in the first place.

@koyu opt out is problematic, but if it can't be retroactively enabled, I'm not sure that's a wise advice
@koyu > Telefonica handing over stuff to governments

in other news, H2O is wet

@koyu
I was allowed to opt-out at both providers with the same number. Is that normal? Do they (I mean Telefonica and Telekom) allow/do cell tower sharing, or something like that (newbie to that)? If so, everybody who wants to opt-out, should opt-out for both! If it was implied with your toot, I didn't get that. Thank you very much for your post!

@eutektoid @koyu In that case you must have used both links in quick succession. Looks like the opt-in/opt-out state is shared. I entered two numbers using one link, then tried the same a couple of minutes later using the second link. Here I only managed to (re)register the first number--for the second I saw a message stating "You've already opted out".

@koyu I'm not a German and not even a EU resident, but how is this legal under the GDPR?

@grishka @koyu I guess it isn't but nobody cares 😢 The big companies all don't care about the GDPR because you can make very much money with selling the data and the risk that anyone takes action against it seems to be pretty low 😕 Just have a look at some of the big German websites.Not one of them is GDPR compliant: They *must* ask before embedding trackers with cookies but they actually load them before they ask and it makes no difference if you click ok or not.

@nipos @grishka @koyu Have a look at article 3 of the #GDPR: gdpr.eu/companies-outside-of-e
W.r.t. cookies: Some are necessary (and therefore allowed), some are not. And I sincerely doubt that "big German websites" (still) don't care, because they risk *hefty* fines. Check the respective privacy policies...

@koyu @Gargron do you know if it‘s also planned for the Telekom daughters like congstar as well?

@meet_judith @Gargron i'm at mobilcom/debitel so these are affected as well (and i have heard about blau on the telefonica side)

@koyu god the telefonica site is garbage on mobile
Cant get further then step 3 because it cuts off the part i have to tap to get to step 4 and opt out

@Jonly @koyu Didn’t work unfortunately. But after 3 tries I now have to wait 24hrs to try again. What a nightmare of a web service.

@schokopflaster
Try using the desktop version of the website. That should work better for e.g. FF.
@Jonly @koyu

@schokopflaster @Jonly @koyu Did you forget to strip the local/international prefix (0049/0)? It worked for me afterwards (you'll receive a SMS right away) ...

@m_ueberall @Jonly @koyu Nah, the SMS thing worked for me. They just never showed the „abmelden“ button.

@schokopflaster @m_ueberall @Jonly if you try to opt-out from the telekom you don't have an "abmelden" button. once you sent the code from the sms to the website it will be opt-out automatically. the "opt-out" is just an anonymization of the data anyway so yes, data will still be collected.

@koyu @m_ueberall @Jonly Yeah, telekom worked fine for me. (Unfortunately I‘m not with Telekom but E-Plus/Aldi Talk/Telefonica so I absolutely don’t know whether the Telekom opt out is sufficient or not.)

@koyu
Der Telekom Opt-Out betrifft ausdrücklich nur die Anonymisierung und Übermittlung der Daten an die Motionlogic GmbH.

@koyu any (english, if possible) source about that?

@angristan @koyu DLF radio mentioned it. They check whether the people stay indoors as demanded by processing the gps profiles of the mobiles. Is is official.

@koyu
The site told me to click on "Abmelden" to opt out. There was no "Ambelden" to click on. I tried in two browsers and in desktop mode and had to re-verify my phone number every time. I still haven't found the Abmelden but they refuse to send me SMS for 24 hours now.

@koyu
Ich dachte immer für die Weitergabe von Daten an dritte besteht eine #Informationspflicht nach #dsgvo und dort ist auch beschrieben das opt-out sowie abmelden mit Hürden nicht erlaubt ist.
#saveprivacy

#lastboost
est-ce qu'on peut opt-out en france aussi ? je sais plus où j'ai lu que le gouvernement avait fait ça aussi

@koyu Does this help? Well, leave your phone at the desk, when going away.

@koyu bei sowas bin ich ehrlich gesagt immer hin und her gerissen.

Einerseits bin ich für guten Datenschutz und Datensammellei, andererseits bin ich auch für opendata.

Wenn in diesem Fall die Daten wirklich so anynoymsiert ist wie auf den Screenshots.. und diese auch nicht die Rohdaten bekommen, finde ich es okay.

Gibt halt immer noch genügend Idioten die außen Party schmeissen , Renter die in Kaffees hocken und Leute die im Biergarten sitzen...... Manche wollen es einfach nicht kapieren :blobcatscared:

Dass gleiche ist es mit den Ausgangssperren. Wären die Leute nicht so blöd wäre es nicht so weit gekommen. Für mich ändert sich eh nicht viel, weil ich mich daran schon seit zwei Wochen halte.. also nur an dem im Notfall rausgehen etc..

@rick
Hierbei geht es aber nicht nur um Daten im Kampf gegen die Ausbreitung des Virus. Hier geht es auch um Daten, die vorher/zukünftig gesammelt wurden/werden und an Firmen verkauft wurden/werden. In meinen Augen hat das nichts mit Open Data zu tun.
@koyu

@rick wenn man mein Leben als Quarantäne bezeichnen kann dann läuft bei mir was gewaltig falsch. Ich will halt nur nicht, dass die Telekom weiß, dass ich mich (auch wenn anonymisiert) bei meinem Psychologen aufgehalten habe. Das sind extremst vertrauliche Daten.

@koyu das weiß sie theoretisch auch jetzt schon (was ich nicht gutheiße!) handynetz ftw..

genau wie dass! das geht schon wieder völlig in die falsche Richtung

Gesetzentwurf: Regierung plant Handyortung potenziell Infizierter - https://www.golem.de/news/gesetzentwurf-regierung-plant-handyortung-potenziell-infizierter-2003-147408-rss.html
@rick Da könnt Ihr Euch in DE ja noch glücklich schätzen ein opt-out zu haben. In Österreich macht das A1 (der größte teilstaatliche Anbieter) und die Regierung im geheimen - gnädigerweise gab es dann doch eine Information an die Bevölkerung, dass das vor Beginn und nach Beginn der Ausgangsbeschränkungen gemacht wurde. Der Pinke Riese macht das sicher auch, da einer seiner (billig) Kunden über 800 000 SIM Karten im umlauf hat (das ist 1/11 der Bevölkerung). @koyu

@koyu please DON'T deactivate it folks! You're stupid if you're doing it. Hopefully it doesn't have any effect on tracking. Don't get me wrong - I'm very focussed on privacy - but not this time!

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